The TX Command Council - IMPORTANT CHANGE

[Penguin]

Well that should be a good thing. That means there are no problems people have. :)

As long as we remind members they can make CC requests, then Crimson is correct.

(which ofc this topic has^^)

[1eShit]

Well that should be a good thing. That means there are no problems people have. :)

I doubt that, e.g. see leavings in the MW2 Division, no request ever reached the CC or requests during the leaving wave in the RepCom Division. No requests by the former SC II division and it died.

[Pacio]

Well that should be a good thing. That means there are no problems people have. :)

Or people are too afraid to tell problems & issues.
I actually don't see any change for members, since they always had the chance to tell their ideas to the CC. And I haven't seen many requests by our members as far as I saw. (Though I'm a standard member aswell, so I don't know what happens behind the scenes)
But if CC members are in CC, it's because of their maturity (almost all of them) and their dedication to TeamXtreme. In my point of view this rule blocks every initiative of these mature&dedicated people.

[Penguin]

Well that should be a good thing. That means there are no problems people have. :)

No requests by the former SC II division and it died.

No. Irony destroyed it. Plus he was DivCom and CC member at the time.

[Foxy]

Well that should be a good thing. That means there are no problems people have. :)

No requests by the former SC II division and it died.

No. Irony destroyed it. Plus he was DivCom and CC member at the time.

/flamewar

'seriously, stop spamming'

[Penguin]

It's not really spam when it's a discussion about the rule change is it?

Especially when it is defending the change from criticism?

[Foxy]

It's not really spam when it's a discussion about the rule change is it?

off topic when it goes to who killed sc2 while this very important topic is on an even more important change

[Penguin]

No. I was replying to 1eShit. I was defending the rule change? Damn, does that mean i'm talking on topic? Oh yes, I think it does. You see, since 1eShit brought this up in an argument about the rule change, it makes it relevant. Since Irony was in the CC and the only reason it died is because he killed it, makes the post very much on topic as it contradicts one of his points. This is called a discussion. Take notes.

1eshit -

No requests by the former SC II division and it died.

Well actually the DivCom was a CC member. Also the division died because he killed it? Fact. Don't like facts?

The only person talking off-topic here is you. Talking about things you do not understand. And making pure spam posts crying about Spam.

A: If YOU actually think it's spam, use the REPORT button, it's there for a reason.
B: It's not spam, just saying.

[Ironhide]

The problem is that the members made almost no request this year (or before), just 2-3 exceptions (I do not count personal requests as "give me an honor rank" now). However many changes the CC made were good and needed, all those ideas came by CC members themself. I do not deny that some rules were useless or not that good, but most work was rather positive than negative.

What does it change wether a CC member posts:

1) Idea X, requested by a "normal member"
2) Idea X, requested by himself

The idea (X) is the same, just suggested by someone else. This rule says:

Idea X suggested by a normal member = good
Idea X suggested by a CC member = bad

I do not really like that. Rather change the way the CC deals with requests (Vash remember the CC guideline in the CC forums? Those could be updated with information such as "create less rules" for example), but do not just block ideas by all CC members. That's not solving the issue, that's a paranoid try to solve it but rather destroys any chance to have an innovative clan.

Many rules the CC created were even copied by other clans (name rule), also the new honor rank system was suggested by a CC member as well as the re-join system which was reworked - and I do not want to miss such things, they're great. Clans even started to copy the CC as leading group of experienced members, TX always had the most innovative ideas in the RC community (just naming RC as example because its our most successful division), and that made TX special: We always tried new things, when they've been bad they were removed later or entirely reworked (like the RG rule), but we always went through some kind of evolution. This is the next step to a "normal" (08/15) clan.

As I said before: The problems are not requests by CC members, but how requests are discussed (in general) and that the CC is probably not talking enough to the clan members and sharing their ideas with the community (using the request board).

[GeniuZ]

and that made TX special: We always tried new things, when they've been bad they were removed later or entirely reworked (like the RG rule), but we always went through some kind of evolution.

yea, thats why we lost a lot of members over the years + a lot of old members went inactive. ofc, they probably had less time for playing/repcom, but i saw so many former members complaining about new (stupid) rules and the bad atmosphere caused by that rules.

nobody ever made any request cuz he knew it wouldnt help. the cc is having a passive role now, which makes everything a lot easier.

we had so many rules, exceptions, changes - most of them were unnecessary.

from now on, MEMBERS will make a request, IF they think the cc shall change things.
we dont need any shitty new rule made by a cc-member.

we dont need to be special, we need a nice atmosphere and satisfied members. please, understand that.

[Ironhide]

and that made TX special: We always tried new things, when they've been bad they were removed later or entirely reworked (like the RG rule), but we always went through some kind of evolution.

yea, thats why we lost a lot of members over the years + a lot of old members went inactive. ofc, they probably had less time for playing/repcom, but i saw so many former members complaining about new (stupid) rules and the bad atmosphere caused by that rules.

Please do not just read one part of my text but the entire post:
"The problems are not requests by CC members, but how requests are discussed (in general) and that the CC is probably not talking enough to the clan members and sharing their ideas with the community (using the request board)."

If the CC would talk to the members before creating a rule, it would not annoy them anymore, improve the atmosphere, and as result there'd be only useful changes.

The CC would sort out good/bad ideas (1ste Instanz) and would then talk to the members (2te Instanz), listen to them and get feedback, and when they like the idea the CC could "confirm" it. So the CC would just work out suggestions and then present them to the members: That's way better than telling the CC to do nothing and just get inactive, because that's how it would end. :)

This would be the system I suggest:
1) Request will be posted in the CC (suggestion by CC members are allowed as well)
2) The CC will discuss the idea, as they currently do, and prepare everything
3) (This is the actual change from the old system) Instead of releasing the rule/change/etc., the CC posts it in the request board in the members area, is waiting for some feedback (1 week approximately), and then will either confirm or refuse the idea - depending on what the members think.

That way the members would be some kind of "quality control" for the CC work, and everyone should be happy + a nice atmosphere would be guaranteed due to the inclusion of the members into the decision process.

Besides this idea:
I do not think that the CC made that many rules anyway, here is what the CC did in the last year:
-Name rule ( which was simply needed and important)
-Age rule (actually not made by the CC anyway, so should not count as "CC rule")
-Rejoin rule (not made by the CC, just reworked)
-RG rule (that one was changed a lot anyway, and is still pretty new)
-Honored rank (as well just reworked, not really made by the CC + not even a rule)
-The "warn board" (agreed, that one failed and was removed after some weeks anyway)
-Cant think of any other major change the CC made during the last months, smaller stuff like "keep 2 or 3 squads" and the "LCom votes" etc. were decided by the division leading staff as far as I know.

So where are all those "bad changes" that destroyed the atmosphere"?
Only actual changes were the name rule and RG rule. The first one neither destroyed anything nor was it useless, last one is very new and got to 80% removed after a month again. Other rules were either not made by the CC, already existed before or were removed anyway.

[GeniuZ]

i did read your whole post.

e.g. that name rule, EVERYBODY complains about that rule in secret cuz its just unnecessary.

actually, i meant "decisions the cc made" instead of "rules the cc made".

that integration thing; to be honest, the members of divisions besides repcom never really wanted to have contact to the rest nor post in other parts of the forum. so whats the matter? they have NOTHING to do with that members of other divisions, why do you want them to be integrated so badly? srsly who cares? its annoying.

that re-join rules: i heard members saying it would be unfair (it definitely is) to some (former) members. if you are not totally retarded, its easy to find excuses and some nice words to convince the cc so you can re-apply.
if you left two times, YOU CANNOT JOIN AGAIN! thats life. make a mistake twice -> its over.

that cc-announcement-account: why do you even need such an account? it should be clear that its not only the decision of the member who posts that announcement, that need of a neutral account is weird.

just some recent examples.

btw., having a powerful cc itself is destroying the atmosphere.

i wont explain that, i guess you know why.

best example: have a look at the feedback here; the members like that change.

[Vash]

Actually, this new rule is only covering official requests. I'm still open for any idea or suggestion of a CC member. The difference is only, that the CC member cannot start am official request which leads into a final decision.

This would be the system I suggest:
1) Request will be posted in the CC (suggestion by CC members are allowed as well)
2) The CC will discuss the idea, as they currently do, and prepare everything
3) (This is the actual change from the old system) Instead of releasing the rule/change/etc., the CC posts it in the request board in the members area, is waiting for some feedback (1 week approximately), and then will either confirm or refuse the idea - depending on what the members think.

I actually admit that this idea is interesting...

[GeniuZ]

it seems to be, but i doubt members will give that much feedback. i do not support that, though, its just how it will probably ends.

[Shanks]

I agree with Geniuz. The CC is a fail right now. You gave the best example yourself. A lot of Members left without making any request, but they complain about changes which were made by the CC. You should wonder why noone is making a request even though everyone is complaining about the atmosphere etc.