WarZone staff reformation

[1eShit]

Why not ? A lot of the WarZone team stayed at their spot. And LegenD got kicked due to an inactivity but he said he would be inactive. I don't really understand.

I think you didn't get what happened there.
The guys who where kicked didn't do anything, the members who stayed are the active ones, who actually do something.

[War]

Why not ? A lot of the WarZone team stayed at their spot. And LegenD got kicked due to an inactivity but he said he would be inactive. I don't really understand.

I think you didn't get what happened there.
The guys who where kicked didn't do anything, the members who stayed are the active ones, who actually do something.

How could Legend do something ? He was actually inactive. He wanted to be a part of WarZone team to do something but he could not, he will do when he is back. But actually he is kicked..

[Splatter]

Why you need to make a long discusion about this here;
LegenD and Numb can solve this topic per Xfire or not?

I don't know why it should be a problem for LegenD to come again in the Staff, when he is active.

[1eShit]

How could Legend do something ? He was actually inactive.

As said like 100 times before, he was kicked because of his inactivity.

I don't know why it should be a problem for LegenD to come again in the Staff, when he is active.

Indeed, that's what I'm saying the whole time.

I won't continue this discussion because it leads into nowhere .. :\

[Ironhide]

but the fact that we're not even included even though we're part of the WarZone staff is what bothers me the most.

You are a normal member of the staff and not an admin. Of course the admins and group leaders are deciding such an important thing, you do not complain either that no one asked you if a DivCom decides something for his division or Vash is changing something. Sometimes it is just up to the superiors to do those things. Not every member has to be involved into everything.

You aint on the admin list Iron.

As I posted in the WarZone forums, I resigned from my admin spot a few hours after these changes. :-)

And LegenD got kicked due to an inactivity but he said he would be inactive

He was not even active before he posted that he's inactive. And even during his "inactive" time I saw him posting on the forums sometimes, so why can he be active in offtopic but not WarZone? What is more important, off topic or warzone?

[Irony]

But as a manager of the sc2 team back then I should've been involved too? Or what do you mean by superiors?

I don't mind changes, but the fact that in such a small group of the clan we weren't involved. Look at the list, you think it would've hurt to involve that few more people, as it matters for all of the members.

But do you honestly think that there's no way to improve these changes? Do you really believe that the admins have hit all the required changes, and that the other members should just "nod and smile?" As if their oppinion doesn't matter.

Comparing this "small" team to the entire clan and major changes decided by VAsH or the CC is a little odd. There's no difference between the relations of WZ staff and admins to normal members and CC? To me there's a wider gap from normal member to CC compared to a Warzone staff member and an admin. But the amount of people is also different and just shows how much different the importance of the changes are.

I just don't feel the use for a "Staff" if the admins can handle it all without even letting the members know. You've spoken so much about initiative. How are we supposed to show our oppinions before announcements like these are posted? We're not even told anything.

Now I'll have to complaint here over and over untill you get it, instead of an earlier announcement to hear the oppinions of the staff, and possible improvements? "Let's just storm ahead, the staff will just adapt." Sounds democratic. No that's not what you said, but it pretty much sums up what you did.

[Ironhide]

But do you honestly think that there's no way to improve these changes? Do you really believe that the admins have hit all the required changes, and that the other members should just "nod and smile?" As if their oppinion doesn't matter

I never said there is no way to improve the staff even more. And everyone is open for suggestions, we have always been. But so far I can not see any specific suggestion or idea by you, just moaning around because you have not been involved into one decision. It's easy to be lazy at first place but complain afterwards. It is harder to work hard and satisfy as many members as possible.

How are we supposed to show our oppinions before announcements like these are posted?

You could have came up with these suggestions as well but you did not. And you can post a lot of suggestions and ideas, you just do not do. You prefer complaining afterwards.

Now I'll have to complaint here over and over untill you get it, instead of an earlier announcement to hear the oppinions of the staff, and possible improvements? "Let's just storm ahead, the staff will just adapt." Sounds democratic

It is not impossible to change things now. You act like "oh my god everything is decided and close now, I can't do anything". That's actually not true, you can still post suggestions and everything you think about. There can always be new changes, but there won't be changes if you just moan around in public but on the other hand do not even work in WarZone. Once you started to post serious stuff in the WarZone forums we can talk about including you in the decisions, but as long as you do not do that, I've no idea why you should be asked actually.

Ironhide and Numb are kinda doing all of it, the only point I feel I have right now is to sit down and remind people to sign up for the tournaments.

If I remember correctly I asked several times for the last tournaments: "Hey who wants to create rules? Who wants to write an announcement?" And I also asked about the expanding stuff: "Who wants to ask other clans?". And much more I have asked for... You have not done ANYTHING of it. And we actually asked several times... You just sat lazy in your chair, let Numb and me do the work and afterwards you cry about not being involved. Seems very silly, sorry.

[Irony]

So now it's a personal attack and going totally off topic? No idea where you're trying to get this.

Stating I'm lazy though I've arranged several tournaments just not posting them on the Warzone page, as the system was bugged out back then and I've not yet made one on the new system.

Claiming me to be moaning arround even though my points and oppinions should be just as valid as yours. According to your "We are open to suggestions." politic.

Saying I don't know how to work hard? Or do I get it wrong? I started a division, I'm trying to satisfy all 42 members even when just 36 are active. That doesn't count at all?

Complaining afterwards? How should I be able to comment beforehand when it's just decided and pops out of nowhere.

"Oh my god everything is decided and close now, I can't do anything."
I never said that, and I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't believe anything could be changed, THAT would be pointless moaning.

If I've not been posting serious stuff in the Warzone it's because I've not understood what was needed to be posted.

I made tournaments, posted that, and I've been joining the discussions as much as I've been able to, making WZ GFX requests and so on, I don't see the point where I've not been working. Posting ideas is also pretty much what I've done besides previously said tournaments.

I don't remember when you asked who'd want to make the announcement? Why's anyone besides the guy who actually made the decission and knows the topic for announcement the best, even supposed to write it?

Once again you're pointing to a personal thing saying I'm sitting lazy in my chair and letting you work whilst whining (sorry, *crying.*)

Only thing silly here is your tone and lack of arguements all of a sudden.

[Ironhide]

So now it's a personal attack and going totally off topic? No idea where you're trying to get this.

No it is not going personal or off topic. I just do not get why you have to complain about not being involved into decisions after Numb and I gave you tons of chance to be, and you never took these chances. And after we asked the entire staff for more help that often, and after always ending being the only guys doing it, we have decided to bring some changes into the staff, and yes, this time we decided to do it alone, because we just could not count on 80% of the staff back then.

Stating I'm lazy though I've arranged several tournaments just not posting them on the Warzone page, as the system was bugged out back then and I've not yet made one on the new system.

Well organizing tournaments but not on WarZone is a bit... Not the sense of the staff? But actually the tournaments already worked on the old website, I hosted one on my own and made some more tests, it worked. Maybe you did not know how to add or edit them, but technically it was possible.

Claiming me to be moaning arround even though my points and oppinions should be just as valid as yours. According to your "We are open to suggestions." politic.

The only suggestion I see is asking you for oppinions for everything, and except this single announcement we have always asked you. It's not that we have always ignored you... Just now after you never helped us before - back when we asked you!

Saying I don't know how to work hard? Or do I get it wrong? I started a division, I'm trying to satisfy all 42 members even when just 36 are active. That doesn't count at all?

Now you're going off-topic. This is about WarZone, I never denied you are doing a good job as SCII DivCom.

Complaining afterwards? How should I be able to comment beforehand when it's just decided and pops out of nowhere

You could have posted your own suggestions about some issues, just read this topic again, that was a perfect chance to do so: http://www.tx-gaming.net/forums/viewtop ... 153&t=9050

I don't remember when you asked who'd want to make the announcement? Why's anyone besides the guy who actually made the decission and knows the topic for announcement the best, even supposed to write it?

No one decides what we do. About the latest tournaments we usually had discussions, everyone said what kind of tournament/ladder he would like to see and than we saw that (for example about the 1v1 ladder) most members wanted a 1v1 ladder. Hence we made one. And everyone should help organizing it, just saying "I want a 1v1 ladder" is not enough. We always gave everyone time to post suggestions for the rules and stuff even after it was decided what kind of ladder we are goingto host, unfortunately no one bothered replying.

[Lionheart]

Well I have to agree with Irony in some points, I mean the staff was not huge at all, it would not have hurt you to ask on forehand what the other members think about kicking about 50% of the staff. As far as I can remember Irony and me were team managers, well there was no tournament wished for COD but I was active arround the other topics, and since you could always rely on my advices you could have at least asked the other managers..

I understand Irony, I was also well surprised about the taken changes and I dont see why Irony is not listed on the admin list, since he is one of the most dedicated WZ members (yes he is, with you and numb, he wants to host tons of tournaments for his SC2 members), I am pretty sure there will be way more SC2 tournaments than RepCom ones and he still does not have any admin rights? That does not make any sense to me..

[DC-17]

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